Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to the simplified integration podcast. This is episode number 35, how to replace your Facebook ad agency.
Speaker 2: (00:10)
Leonardo DaVinci once said that simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. And I agree you see the problem with the way that most consulting groups approach medical integration is anything but simple. In fact, it's the exact opposite. It's expensive, it's complicated. And quite frankly, it's exhausting enough is enough. There are far too many amazing integrated clinics that are struggling well. I'm on a mission to change that what I've come to find from over five years, working with integrative practices is that simplicity really is the secret. The old saying of less is more, is true through a streamlined approach. I was able to create multiple successful seven figure integrated clinics. And now I'm going to show you how you can do the same. Join me as I share with you the secrets to successful medical integration and practice growth. Join me on a journey to greater sophistication through innovation. I'm dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to the simplified integration podcast.
Speaker 1: (01:09)
Welcome back doc to the simplified integration podcast. It's great to have you here today. So today we have a special guest. Uh, usually these podcasts are just me spouting some, some knowledge and, and, uh, things I know about integration, but I'm really happy to have Sam Carlson on today. Uh, Sam has been a buddy of mine for about a year and a half, and, uh, the title of the podcast is how to replace your Facebook ad agency. And ironically, Sam has been my Facebook ad agency.
Speaker 2: (01:39)
That is a little ironic. I didn't even think about that one.
Speaker 1: (01:43)
True. And this is not a Donald Trump moment where I'm going to say you're fired, but, but I get a ton of questions from doctors on, Hey, who do you use for your Facebook ad agency? And, uh, and so Sam has, has changed and is starting to change the landscape for Facebook adage ad agencies. And I want to get into that in just a minute, but I wanted to. So looking back, um, I just thought of this late, uh, we're, we're recording this podcast in September of 20, 20 labor day just came and went. And we actually opened our practice eight years ago on labor day on Monday. And it, it, it brought back a lot of like, like painful moments in opening a practice. And when we first started, like we had a small, I got a small loan from my dad to, to like get the office built out. And he gave me 50,000 bucks and he said, here's, this is all you're getting and you better use it wisely. And hopefully it'll get some patients. And by the way, this, all this my dad said, uh, my dad was one of those guys that just didn't believe in chiropractic. Anyhow, he goes, and he goes, Andrew, listen, wherever. Right when I open the off, he goes, listen, just make sure when your patients come in, like help, don't completely fix it. So we have to keep coming back over.
Speaker 1: (03:04)
And that was my dad's strategy to a successful chiropractor business. So, so we had this like money to play with, to open our office. And we didn't have a ton of money for advertising. And, and, uh, like we couldn't, like we didn't have a ton of money. So we had to, we had to go out in the community and find patients. And it was really nerve wracking to me. It was like, we went from like 90 days opening and 60 days and 30 days. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, like we've got to get patients in the door. And so the weekend, that holiday weekend of labor day, we got permission from a, from a health food store to do screenings at the store. And they had two offices, one in the North side of the city, one in the South side. And so on Saturday, I went to one location.
Speaker 1: (03:46)
My wife went to the other one and we screened for eight hours, which is exhausting. And then, and then the day after that, we had a screening set up at Walmart that we like finagled our way in and two hours into the screening that the manager came up and she's like, yeah, you guys can't do that here. Like you gotta leap. So I kicked out, we got kicked out of our Walmart screening and, uh, we did a craft fair that weekend. So we screamed like, hell, it was like 30 some hours over that weekend. And thank God we had, we had 23 patients signed up new patients, signed up on the books for that week. And we converted like half of those. And so all of a sudden we had new patients, we had revenue. And, um, and I remember in the beginning, like that was like screening was really painful for us.
Speaker 1: (04:35)
I always felt awkward doing it. I didn't mind going through that pain. Um, cause I knew we would get patients out of it, but it was a lot of work. And for the first two years, we were always doing screening events and live events and talks, wherever we could talk about chiropractic, I would show up and I would get patients from it. And that was actually really good at screening. I just hated it. And for a long time for like, especially the first six months, that's all we did on weekends. We got, um, we got time off on Sunday. We'd go to church, we'd spend the rest of the, you know, the rest of our Sundays, just relaxing and preparing for the week. But we worked Monday, Monday through Friday, Friday afternoons, we were screening. And then Saturday, all Saturday we were doing screenings and events.
Speaker 1: (05:15)
And when Facebook came along, like Holy cow, we had our weekends back put like weeks instead of doing like six screenings a week, we would do, uh, or a month we would do maybe one or two. And it completely like Facebook completely changed my life in a really good way. And so my wife and I were able to take like short trips and we were able to, you know, kind of pull ourselves away from our, from our practice. And it was like, it was a game changing thing because, because with Facebook, what I realized that if you had really good Facebook ads, it was kind of like doing 24 seven screenings, right. If you had the right ad and, and so that's where, um, you know, where good ad agencies and good copy and offers come in. And so I just wanted to start with that story.
Speaker 1: (06:03)
And, um, if you could maybe just give us a little bit of a background on what you do and, um, and I'll preface it a little bit. I met you a year and a half ago. I, um, I was, uh, been reading through a bunch of Russell Brunson books and this name kept coming up. He's like, I worked with this chiropractor and this chiropractor ran these funnels and did really well. And I'm like, who the heck is this chiropractor? And then finally he said, one of his books, it's like the chiropractor, dr. Woolner. I'm like, ah, dr. Woolner. So I typed, I typed in dr. Vulner. I'm like this guy has got to know something he's working with Russell Brunson. And I, and I realized I actually been following him for awhile and then signed up for his map event, went up to Idaho. And that's where I met you, uh, dr. Wallner's event. So maybe if you can give us a kind of, a little bit of a background on, on what you do.
Speaker 3: (06:52)
Yeah. So, uh, you're a good storyteller buddy, by the way. That's a,
Speaker 4: (06:57)
I, I, you know, I get a visual
Speaker 3: (07:00)
Of watching you go and do those screenings. And it's really interesting because when I got into the chiropractic niche, I was actually a consultant. Um, I've, I've only, it's a long story. I'll keep it very short, but I've only been an entrepreneur. And so I've owned a lot of businesses and back in like 2000 and I don't know, 2014, 15, somewhere in that 15, I think in that time range, I was thinking about going and doing some consulting and a good friend of mine, Sonny who, dr. Sonic, Gail, who you've met. Um, I was at a birthday party and I said, Hey, I think we're going to go start a business consulting gig. And he said, no, don't do that. I said, well, we didn't know each other that, well, I was like, what are you talking about, man? And he goes, no, come work with me.
Speaker 3: (07:47)
I do consulting. And so I decided to do that. And I start in working with him. I started to learn how chiropractic works, how your businesses are structured, how to systemize them and, and, you know, just everything it takes to be successful. And one of the things that five years ago, we were teaching folks to do were screenings, and I know the [inaudible] and the anxiety and the stress and all those things that come along with, you know, with doing those. They're very, they're very effective, you know, there's no arguing that, but yeah, with the advent of Facebook and marketing funnels and just different things like that, there's, there's more options for docs to, to grow their practice. So, uh, yeah, we met at the, uh, at, at dr. Wallner's map event and, uh, I've known dr. Woolner for several years. I actually bought his program when I was consulting.
Speaker 3: (08:46)
Okay. Is his funnel program. And so it's, again, a lot of these little, you know, this spider web of, of people that you meet and, and then what you decide to do with it. And for me, um, I have, uh, you know, the sales and marketing background that I have created over years of being an entrepreneur were pretty extensive. And so I started helping our clients that we were consulting. I started helping them run their ads. And then before very long, I got really good at it. And I started just doing that. And long story short, I teamed up with my partner who is now Jacob, um, Jacob Morris, he and I, um, we're running an agency called twenty-fifth West. And we were doing a very traditional agency model where we would take clients, we would run their Facebook and Google ads. In most cases, those were the two platforms we were offering and we would create campaigns for them.
Speaker 3: (09:44)
And, uh, so that was kind of, you know, the, the long drawn out version. But today we've kind of, I mean, I'm, I'm, I think that you should always be looking for the future. What's next? What is the, um, you know, what is, what is the future of what you're trying to do? And sometimes that future comes a lot faster than others because, you know, because of events and we had in March, April timeframe, we had a pretty severe event, you know, hit the, hit the world with coronavirus and with coronavirus, we were forced to do something different. Okay. And basically what we ended up doing was innovating ourselves out of a job. Right.
Speaker 1: (10:31)
Are we get into that? Like, I think I want to, I just want to talk about where I think most doctors are right now with their Facebook ad agencies. And this is, um, this may be my own experience, but maybe you can tell me if this is right or not. So we had a Facebook ad ad agency, and, and like I said, like, I changed our life and we had patients coming in and we have to do any work. And, um, and then after a while, like we noticed that we had less and less leads coming in. And then we would like call her at eight. We would call an agency and say, Hey, it's not like we had 30 yet leads last month. We only had 15 and now we only have five. And so there was like this continual cycle of, um, of like ups and downs with Facebook.
Speaker 1: (11:11)
And I never knew, I never gave it much thought, but I never knew like, what w why that happened? Was it, was it ad fatigue? Was it Facebook changing their algorithm? Or were we not putting enough? Like, sometimes the solution was, we'll just put more money behind your ad budget and you'll get more people. Yeah. But, but it's like, well, for 500 bucks last month, we got this money. Why can't we get the same people for 500 bucks this month? And so I didn't, I didn't know, like, uh, if there was some like secret sauce or something on the backend that agencies were using to, to create good ads for people. And so I think what some doctors are doing now is they're seeing, you know, when their ads fatigue is that they start jumping around at different ad agencies, which I did like, I'm like, Oh, maybe, maybe this agency, but they'll have a really snappy ad or whatever. And I'd see it. I'm like, well, maybe we'll try this one for, for a few months and see how they do it. And then the same thing would happen. It'd be great for a couple of weeks. And then it would fatigue. And then, and then, and sometimes, and here's a D does that make sense?
Speaker 3: (12:12)
Yeah. Yes. You're, you're relaying the experience of 90% of the, of the clinics out there. Yes, this is true.
Speaker 1: (12:21)
And I remember what was frustrating for us was that we really felt like we had a really good dialed in front desk, and we were really quick at responding to ads. And when the ads started to fatigue, more than several times, we had agencies say, well, well, it's probably your front desk. That's why you're not, that's why you're not converting it. I'm like, nah, it's the same looks at the same people. And it's like, well, maybe you're not answering ads quick enough. And it's like, what, what ads would start to fatigue? I would notice agencies start to like, like the low hanging fruit is like, well, blame the client. It's like, if you're irritating and I understand that they were probably working with a lot of clients that had awful front desk and they weren't trained. And they didn't, you know, they answer ads a day late and stuff, but it was frustrating for us. And so that was one of the reasons why we were sort of agency hopping to find like, you know, we were trying to find the magic pill to keep this never ending stream of patients coming in and not have to worry about it. And, um, yeah, so that was, I think a lot of docs are stuck in that because, and that's why they're asking like, Hey, what's what, who are you using for Facebook ads? Cause they're, you know, they have those, those frustrations and pain points.
Speaker 3: (13:37)
We did a training last week. You and I, and one of the, one of the things that I shared in that training was a 100% true story. And I don't need to throw out names in such a public way right now, but there was a marketer, a digital marketer that created a course that basically sold the idea that, Hey, chiropractors are easy to sell. Okay. And if you just use these ads and these funnels you'll get leads, and then you can just go party. That was, I mean, that was the pitch. And
Speaker 1: (14:09)
That's a pretty good pitch, you know, Hey, easy money,
Speaker 3: (14:14)
Party lifestyle. That's a pretty good pitch, but it's not authentic and it's not true. Right. Right. And what you're talking about is, I mean, uh, marketing and, and working with, uh, working with online, working with a client and an agency is a dance and you're right. Not all front desks are created equal the same way that not all agencies are created equal, right. Because when it comes to turning an ad on and, and, you know, turning a funnel on pretty much, I mean, a lot of them will get really good success during that initial, you know, honeymoon phase. Right? The problem is, is the real work starts when you have, you know, a lot of, and there's a lot of different things. It can, it can be ad fatigue and B audience fatigue. It can be just complete neglect, you know, so there's a lot of things that can happen, but it's really the agency's job to deconstruct the problem and say, Hey, well, the problem is, is maybe, um, in fact, we had a problem this week where somebody had been posting a lot of content on their Facebook page about a certain, you know, coven thing that they shouldn't have been.
Speaker 3: (15:35)
And because of that, their, their account got flagged. And that was their business page. Their business page got flagged what gets flagged with your business page, all of your ad accounts that are connected to that business page. And so obviously this is going to con uh, this is going to affect their performance. So there is that dance, but just to kind of get back to the root cause, you know, there's a lot of, not all of them. I got friends that are in there in this business that are good people doing a good job. Um, but unfortunately there's just, there are because of that one event, that one person, that one digital company there does seem to be a lot of folks in this space that just kind of, you know, they pray on and it's, and docs are getting very wise to, to what's happening. And they may not know where it came from, but they recognize the symptomology. I'm telling you, it came from this one course creator. Uh, he did a very good job of selling this course. So, um, yeah. That's kind of the inception of that cycle that you are discussing.
Speaker 1: (16:42)
Yeah. Yeah. Like I've had a, you know, we've, we've been through a lot of ad agencies and I noticed that there are agencies that do a great job, especially on like the back end stuff and training offered resources and scripting, and like all the things that it takes to, to have a lead come into your office and kind of come into fruition. And then some agencies that were just awful, like no leads from the beginning, no leads in the end and nothing in between. And one thing I wanted to ask you, do you, and I hear this from doctors occasionally. And it's one concern that I have is like, do you think that Facebook is going to even be relevant in terms of advertising in the near future? Like, is that platform going to be around? Is it going to be, can you still use it effectively for leads? Is it, are we going to have to shift to another platform? Um, and particularly with, um, I've seen some, uh, some issues with docs being able to advertise for regenerative medicine, um, and, and maybe even like tightening down on a certain claims, um, weight, like weight loss as an example as well. What is
Speaker 3: (17:50)
Your take on that? Well, so there's two questions. So I, the first one is, is Facebook relevant and will it continue to be relevant? So really what we're talking about is where's the attention. Okay. You've got platforms, you've got snap, Snapchat, tick talk, uh, Reddit, uh, Twitter, Facebook, Google ad words. You know, you've got all these different platforms. And when you look at Facebook, Facebook, uh, the, the level of reach you have to understand, it's not just Facebook, it's also Instagram. It's also like different articles, different places throughout the, uh, throughout the internet. There's a lot of places where Facebook's ad platform gets reach. Okay. And the number of active monthly users I still think is, I mean, I think they have like 2.2 billion active monthly users. So I think, I think it's still relevant now what the future looks like. I mean, guaranteed, you know, tick talk has definitely made a surge in the last, um, in the last year, you know, you didn't hear much about ticktock before a year ago, but now it's making a surge.
Speaker 3: (19:01)
And so I'm sure, you know, that's, that's the cool part about living in a venture capitalist economy is there's always new things coming and whether or not Facebook is relevant three, four or five years from now, doesn't really matter so long as you understand what we're going after. And that is attention, right? What is, what is the best way to, to get attention and then to, and I would say Facebook is relevant as it's ever been, if not more. So, especially with the audiences that we're seeing. Cause cause the audience, the, the 35 to 65 seven, you know, the older audiences, they're not going on to Snapchat, they're not, they're staying put on these platforms. Um, so relevance, I think definitely it's, it's relevant. It will continue to be as far as terms and policies and just what will be allowed. That is a moving target.
Speaker 3: (20:00)
Right. Uh, but you know, so there's some things that they're never going to really want you to do. They're never going to want it to seem spammy. One of the problems that there's a, that there's issues with weight loss is because the history of weight loss, marketing, you know, it's very spammy. It's very, everything is before and after everything is very, Hey, you're going to be losing a hundred pounds in seven days. So there's a lot of hype behind these things. And so really at the end of the day, there's not a condition that we don't Mark it. It's just, you have to understand the approach to take, right? So for example, you talk about weight loss. We don't promote weight loss in the typical sense of, uh, you know, these, you know, crazy results with, in fact, we don't even hardly talk about results.
Speaker 3: (20:52)
We talk, we, we lead with new technology. A lot of times when we're talking about weight loss stuff, we talk about red light therapy or a true like body contouring or things along those lines. So what new technological advances are there available to users? That's going to hook them, right? Cause you got to hook their attention with something. And um, so long as it's not the same thing, then, then you'll be okay. Right. So, um, I do think that even though they do tighten down on what you can and cannot say, and even like, if you put an ad in that gets approved in one market, it might get disapproved in the exact same market, but at a different clinic, this is just part of scalability. This is how big the platform is. And we see ads that get disapproved and we just hit manual requests, you know, and they'll get approved five minutes later because they're like, okay, we just want to test you, make sure a person's there. So I think definitely, I mean, marketing for chronic pain conditions, uh, doesn't seem to have gotten any more difficult. Um, I think we've been pretty much in the same place for several years that we have been, you know, that we will be, I don't see anything changing there either.
Speaker 1: (22:09)
No, I know like sometimes doctors tend to focus on like the platform itself, like the algorithms and picking the right demographics and those things I know are really important, but I think even more important than that are just the fundamentals of sales. Yes. This is like, this is what initially attracted me to you. Was that was that you weren't talking about like the technology, not, I don't mean offer technology, but like the technology of how you're delivering your message, you were talking on the message. And I w I wanted you to, I think this is like, forget all like the platforms and patients, dream and agencies and all that. This is what I think really makes you unique in your space is, well, first of all, I, you understand our industry really well. The psychology of it, what patients are looking for, what doctors are looking for. But I want you to talk for a minute, if you will, about just good old fashioned salesmanship. If you look at old ads, like looking at an old ad for knee, like knee pain, like from 50 years ago, it's not that much different than an ad today. Cause it's like people have knee pain and they want to get rid of it. But I wanted you to maybe like talk about like what copywriting is, what sales is and what maybe the differences between that and it, and an offer in the clinic. And like how, like what some of the psychology that you use that goes into to your ads.
Speaker 3: (23:35)
Yeah. A ship and just the communication part of advertising. That is thing that I love most about everything, you know, coming up with concepts and angles is really important. But I think just, I mean, let's frame this around a problem that is very common. And so w I'll I'll have from time to time, people come and say, Hey, I want to promote, I was giving you an example. I want to promote leaky gut. Right. We were talking about this briefly before, uh, the podcast had a CA a client say, Hey, I would really like to focus on leaky gut and do you have something you can do for that? And I understand then the, the motivation of the question, but it is the source of all advertising problems, which is it's an inward looking out and stuff, have an outward looking in. And what I mean by that, that is stop thinking about what your, what you want.
Speaker 3: (24:33)
Like, I want leaky gut. So maybe I want, you know, autoimmune patients, you know, I want to get a lot of autoimmune patients stuff, thinking about what you want and stop, start thinking about the audience and what they want. Okay. So my question, my response back to my doctor was what is the condition that we're marketing? What are we going out? As soon as you start to identify and deconstruct that problem, then you can really start to frame that the conversation around providing new solutions. So I like, I like to make sure that we're focusing on a problem okay. That we have some kind of actual solution. And then when you're talking about, um, copywriting, you know, the more I learn about copywriting, the more I learn, the more I, I understand that copywriting is just about like unique ideas. Can you put it an idea in somebody's head that they'll say, Oh, I hadn't considered that before.
Speaker 3: (25:35)
Right. Um, I was, uh, I was writing an ad the other day and I don't have, I have, I have notes around my desk and w we were talking about level light therapy and in the context of helping people with neuropathy, and there was a couple of interesting facts, like, uh, I don't know if you knew this, but low level light therapy has been proven to help, uh, in about 97% of neuropathy cases in like dramatically reducing, um, symptomology. Right. I didn't know. Uh, and so that's, that's a pretty interesting data point, but then we got to start framing that around an idea. So if we hook them with that, we've got to say, well, well, what makes, what makes LLT low light therapy? What makes that so powerful? Like, what is, what is the concept? What is the idea, right. This whole idea of increasing blood flow or, um, you know, is it, uh, I, when I'm in deep co you know, copywriting phase, I'll get angiogenesis, is that right?
Speaker 1: (26:47)
Yeah. Making new blood vessels look at that
Speaker 3: (26:50)
Angiogenesis. And so, and what angiogenesis then leads to. And so if you take people down to these like
Speaker 1: (26:57)
Root solutions, then they'll extrapolate on their own
Speaker 3: (27:02)
And say, Oh, that's how you solve my neuropathy. And then all of a sudden, in their mind, you gave a visual possibility, right? So when you're talking about ads, you want to have something that hooks their attention. You want to have an idea. It's not about the individual words. It's about the idea that you frame that's different than what everybody else is doing. Okay. This is another reason why I'm in weight loss. If you talk about weight loss, okay. Just eat less. Or, you know, once an idea gets popular, like intermittent fasting is very popular right now. You're not going to become the intermittent fasting guy anymore. That that concept has sailed, right.
Speaker 1: (27:46)
Whoever created, who created that, by the way, um, do you know? No. Do you,
Speaker 3: (27:52)
No, I don't. I mean, the same thing with Kito, you know, it's like, uh, there was a guy, uh, there was a guy in Joe Rogan's podcast that was a KIDO guy, and that was a very novel. So these are all concepts and ideas they're going after the same result. Right. So when it comes to copywriting, copywriting is more of a creative, internal thought process where you look at a, at a audiences problem and find a way to just say, Hey, here's a solution you've never considered before. Right. And what, how can you package it to where they'll, they'll, uh, you know, they'll, they'll believe you and they'll want to take the net or they'll want to learn more.
Speaker 1: (28:35)
So that that'll make sense. So how do you, how are you taking that knowledge that you have on, on salesmanship and then actually making that work for, for doctors? So obviously, I mean, you're, you're, you see clients all across the country. I think you have a really good because of the position you're in. Do you have a really good idea of what types of services docs are offering? Um, what type of, of ads work and what, how they, and if they don't work, but how are you, like, how are you taking that and putting it into a doc, seeing more, more patients in their clinic every week?
Speaker 3: (29:09)
Yeah, that's a good question. So, um, so I'll give you an example. Um, about two and a half, three years ago, we were having just, I mean, marketing for STEM cells was so easy. Cause in and of itself was a unique and novel idea that was like, Oh cool. STEM cells. Yeah. Replace know that whole
Speaker 1: (29:30)
Sold itself. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (29:32)
But the old phrase, a tactic known as a tactic blown. So everybody comes in and now you're just, like you said, it's red ocean. You're a, me too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (29:42)
You're, you're now an intermittent fasting world.
Speaker 3: (29:44)
That's exactly right. And so what do you do? Well, I had a, I had a client that we were doing a web call like this, and he had in the background, he had like a neon track. You know, what a neon track is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (29:57)
Yeah. We have clients that use those they're also. Yes.
Speaker 3: (30:00)
So he had a neon track. I'm like, Hey, what is that thing? And he goes, Oh, that's called a neon track. Any, any had like, I'm a nurse, not a nurse, but you know, an assistant sit down in it. And I was, I knew immediately what it was. She sat down in it strapped her knee and I'm like, Oh, that pulls the knee apart. I didn't necessarily know how that, you know, help people with me knee pain, but I'm like, dude, I can Mark it that I know I can market that because it was a unique approach. So I'm always on the lookout for things like that. Okay. Um, whether that's, uh, you know, contour, light, pulse wave therapy, um, Oh, to therapy, different things like this, things that it just, when you look at him, you're like, Oh, it's curious. There's some curiosity there. And when you frame it right around a problem, it really has pole. Right. And so I've, I've become really, I hate to say I've become really good because that sounds conceited. He's conceited.
Speaker 1: (31:01)
I forgive you arrogance. Exactly. You know,
Speaker 3: (31:05)
I just, I feel like maybe I'm not the best at it, but I feel like when I, when I see something like that, like the neon track or something akin to that, I can create a framework that will get attention and make people want to take action. And so I've just taken that to anywhere in the chronic pain space, uh, the, the wellness community. And I'm always looking for little, little things like that and, you know, create more offers, test them. And they tend inside of that framework. They tend to work pretty well.
Speaker 1: (31:40)
We need to get neon track to sponsor this podcast.
Speaker 3: (31:43)
Those guys are awesome. Ergo flex. Uh, they, they did, they did what we should. Uh, but, uh, they're awesome. Their products are awesome. Their owners are awesome. They're just good people. So I can't say enough good things about that company.
Speaker 1: (31:57)
Interesting. You bring that up. I was just talking to a client this morning and he uses a neon track, knee compression in his therapy, and we've positioned it. Here's one of our tricks by the way, docs we've, we've positioned this machine. What a knee pain patient comes in. They go through an exam, they see the nurse practitioner. And then before they leave, we put them on knee decompression. And I was going over stats with a Dr. Day. He goes, he goes, you know what? He goes, I might hit, I don't know if I want to use this need on track machine anymore because I put patients on and on day one,
Speaker 3: (32:27)
They feel like
Speaker 1: (32:29)
Completely corrected their problem. They don't come back anymore. It's drawing is day one to day two conversions because this neon track was like, quote, fixing the knee problem. And, uh, I'm like, well, you know, he, he wasn't pre-framing it at all, but, but the machine works like I've. Yeah. He's, he's, he's ruined a couple of patients that way.
Speaker 3: (32:50)
What's cool about that is like, if you give somebody an experience, as long as, like you said, you have to frame out, Hey, what's happening. This is where education comes in. You know what I mean? Um, Dan Kennedy, uh, the late Dan Kennedy, he talked about, he actually consulted a lot with chiropractors. I don't know if you knew that I did it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, he, um, he talked basically education is the key to closing, right? Like, like the right type of education. And so I found that again, like if you're doing the neon track, just tell people what's happening. Right. If you educate them and then they match their subjective experience with the education you're giving,
Speaker 1: (33:30)
They're going to convert. I'm going to say yes, that doctor is telling me the truth. It's a tool.
Speaker 3: (33:35)
Oh man. If you do it right, it can be a huge tool.
Speaker 1: (33:38)
Yeah. I actually just, this morning created a script for that. Like how to, how to, cause we didn't have it. And I realized that like, some people just do it naturally, like, alright, you get on the machine and here's, what's going to do, here's what you should expect from the machine. And some doctors is like putting them on and not really explaining it. And then they would, you know, the patient had a bad result or like, Oh, that didn't work. I'm not coming back. Or they have a good result. Wow. That worked. I fixed that. They fixed me. I don't need to come back. But they were doing, they weren't, like you said, they weren't doing education. They weren't pre-framing. And um, that's yeah, that was a problem. I gotta call ergo flex and podcast sponsorships. They're great. People like, yeah, that's cool. I've sold a lot of their machines, their clients.
Speaker 1: (34:19)
So I'm like, dude, I don't care. They're great. They're helping me help people. It's a win win. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So I want to get into, now we talked about this a little bit in the beginning of the podcast on, on what you're doing to really, to change the Facebook ad agency business. I mean, when you, when you first told me this concept about patients Treme and explaining what it did, I'm like, man, you're going to like, you're going to put a lot of Facebook ad agencies out of business because you don't need them anymore. And maybe, and maybe I'm like overstepping that maybe that's an exaggeration, but, um, if you would just walk through like what you've been up to and on the, on the platform side and what, and like what you've been up to in the last few months or years, or however long this has taken you imagine it's been a bear to create, but what, what are you doing to change the Facebook ad agency business? Yeah. Um, yeah,
Speaker 3: (35:19)
So it it's interesting. I was a, at the beginning of the podcast, I said, we kind of have innovated ourselves out of a job. Right. And that's very true. I mean, we, we had, we had clients that were in this in one, you know, we're in the traditional agency side and now they're, they've kind of into this automated side. And so what happened was, I mean, my, my company's dynamic is I focus, like you said, I really focus on the messaging on the concepts, on the ideas that I feel if presented to the right people will convert them. Okay. And that's what I've been doing for years. So several years. And then Jacob is more of the, you know, he's a lot better at talking to computers than he is to talking to people. And so we're very yin yang and, and he'd been consulting with a development company and they had been working on these different ideas and platforms.
Speaker 3: (36:18)
And one of the things that they came up with was how to basically launch and manage campaigns without a person having to get involved so long as you had a couple of ingredients, right? It's not like, Hey, it's just gonna, it's not AI per se. Right. You had to give it proven ads and then proven marketing funnels. As long as you have those two elements, it could launch those in a strategic way. And then it could manage performance on the back end. And it just so happens. We had that right. We had those, we had those ingredients. And so we actually teamed up with this company and, and we changed the entire way of, of managing campaigns to where we uploaded stuff. We know, work into our new software. And now it basically does the job of an agencies. And it does have a couple of drawbacks.
Speaker 3: (37:13)
I mean, it's awesome. It's amazing. Uh, it makes it so you can launch your own ads and we say doing just three clicks and it really is, you know, there's three different clicks. You click what condition you want to market. You click, uh, what your daily budget is. And then you click publish campaign. And that's crazy. There's no getting in Facebook, there's no choosing or, or writing ad copy. And you know, there's, there's no, it's just all done for you. Right. And so we created this thing now. It doesn't. So the limitations are, I mean, custom, you know, so there is space always. I don't have a beef against agencies. I think there's some that do not need to be in the agency, in the agency business a hundred percent, you know, but I've got some good friends that I think are great. People offer a good service.
Speaker 3: (38:08)
And when they have a good fit with a client, it works and they do a good job. And when it comes to like custom, you know, custom stuff, whatever it is, you know, we, we now are able to offer what we're doing at a really low cost, but you're using basically templates campaigns. Okay. And so they're done for you. You, don't got to think about, and you just got to think, Hey, what is, I want knee decompression patients. We've been talking about, you know, the neon track. I want knee decompression patients, you choose needy compression patients. You tell your daily budget and click publish, and then boom, it'll go out and start advertising and, uh, you know, generating new leads. So it's kind of hard to, it feels like it's, I feel like sometimes when I articulate, I try to explain it to people. They're like, wait a minute. So it sounds too good to be true. Like you, listen, it's not, it's not all sunshine. And, and uh, you know, what does it sunshine and lollipops or what
Speaker 1: (39:11)
Sunshine, rainbows unicorns. One of those.
Speaker 3: (39:13)
Yeah. It's not all that. I mean, there's some down again, you know, we, we, uh, we're, we don't do custom campaigns. And so, uh, if you want to change the offer from $47 for this thing to $97, that's not something we can do. Um, but it's offering, I mean, it's, it's growing quickly, which we're excited about. And, um, it's offering a really unique solution. And I guess the crux of it is it puts the power in the control of your advertising back in your hands. You choose when you run ads, you choose. If you want to turn them off, if you want to switch from needy compression to spinal decompression, you choose to do that. So I don't know. I don't know if, if that, if, if I left any holes, but that's kind of the gist of what it's doing.
Speaker 1: (39:58)
I like that. Cause what I think what it allows doctors to do is say, all right. Yeah. Like let's, let's pick a condition, whether it's back pain or knee pain or regenerative medicine. And Hey, Mary, at the front desk, let's do a Facebook ad this week. Let's put 300 bucks behind it and see how it does. I like the fact that you can delegate that to somebody without having to call up an agency, tweak things. There's some, let some time lag there, but also you can delegate that to your staff to do for you. And the other thing I didn't think about, I just kind of crossed my mind is that also there's some, I think when you have a doctor or an office app actually going in and clicking the buttons at hitting, like start on a campaign, there's a little bit more ownership over that campaign that, alright, we just move some money over and we hit go.
Speaker 1: (40:43)
And I think there's a little bit more, um, maybe willingness to track their stats. Cause I know I'm guilty that guys, like we've had ed ad agencies and we just give them a monthly ad agent, a monthly ad budget and their agency fee. And we just let it go. And we're not like really tracking our, your ad spend and our cost per our cost per lead. And I think by doing this, it may actually get doctors to actually do their stats and figure out like, well, we spent 600 bucks this month. How many new patients did we get in from that ad and start to play with their ad numbers. So I liked it. I liked getting the doctor involved with it without having to know how to run a Facebook ad.
Speaker 3: (41:21)
Yeah. Right. And the cool thing about it is, you know, you have that there's so patient stream really is two macro components. One is lead gen lead, lead generation, and then the other is lead management. So the lead gen is a proprietary tool. We created it. It's ours, it's nobody else has it. And then the lead management tool is, you know, there's a lot of lead management tools out there and things that our people are using. Um, but what we've been able to do with our lead management tool is we've been able to plug the two of them together. So they become basically one. And so when your campaigns start running, they plug into prebuilt followup campaigns, you know, and, uh, we had one user, um, Michelle Sims, hi Michelle, if you're listening, I love Michelle. Since she, she and her husband, Scott they're out of Nacadocious Texas say that one, that's kind of a mouthful, but, uh, she came on, she was one of our first pilot users and she's super smart, really good.
Speaker 3: (42:25)
And she started using the platform immediately. She's a sharp lady and she knew what she was doing because she had used other products like it before. And she went from spending three hours a day in lead chasing a reactivation efforts and all those things to spending less than an hour in a day and booking their calendar out for like during the whole COVID thing, it's still kind of happening for three weeks and they're booked out three weeks that had never happened to them. And that was happening in the midst of COVID. And that's just because she understood that it, it's not just about lead generation. There's also a lot to management side, but management is hard. It's a lot of work, you know? I mean, when you guys first started doing Facebook ads, I'm guessing you got like a spreadsheet of ads or maybe just a single notifications. Is that how you guys did it?
Speaker 1: (43:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Very manual, very manual. And it's a pain in the butt. It is not only to keep up with and be, have the discipline to keep up with it, but then also to follow up, to follow up with it. And then how do you follow up with it? The numbers. Yeah, that's the, that's the hard part. And that's, I know from experience and working with lots and lots of docs, that's what they're not doing. Either don't know how to do it. Or, um, they, they just, they get tied up with other things.
Speaker 3: (43:53)
It's the habits, you know, it's our habits, our habits are okay. I know I got a new lead. I know I got to call it, but 48% of leads never get called the first time. So 48%. Okay. And then this is the scarier stat, 80% of your sales come between the fifth to the 12th contact. So if you start doing some math, think about the amount of leads you're going to have to generate to get one patient. If you're not willing to do the followup, you know, the math starts to get really, really scary. But if you,
Speaker 1: (44:28)
I have a tool that will help you in that, that we'll do a lot of it for you manage it, reach out to him,
Speaker 3: (44:35)
People and people are now reaching out to you. You can take a job, that's a full time position and reduce it to again, you know, less than an hour a day, if done well, if done properly,
Speaker 1: (44:46)
Man, that's crazy. That's solving such a huge issue for clamp, for offices, for clinics. Yeah. That's amazing. We're excited about it. You know, I mean, we've gotten
Speaker 3: (44:58)
This whole thing started in, um, you know, right around the beginning of the whole Corona nonsense, nonsense. I don't know if anybody is taking offense to nonsense, but a little bit of nonsense. Okay. I think we can all agree. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (45:12)
You're talking to chiropractors mainly, so. Okay. Very good.
Speaker 3: (45:16)
Um, and I mean, we've got now about 100, not about, I think we're at 99 users today. And so, you know, maybe tomorrow, maybe by then today we'll be at 100, who knows, but it's growing really fast. We really care about our users. Um, and that's not a sales pitch. I mean, I've got a, a Facebook group and I go in there every single day and I'm either posting or I'm seeing if people have questions and we've got awesome support.
Speaker 1: (45:45)
Um, it's really
Speaker 3: (45:46)
Exciting. It's a lot of fun. Um, and I think, you know, I think it's only gonna get better. And again, we're adding, like you said, so we, we do a lot of conditions. I love going after the ad angles. That's what I mean. I like helping people and talking, but if you think in the, in the creative space, what do I enjoy doing is coming up with new offers. I enjoy coming up with new offers. And so, um, that's, that's kinda my role and we've got a bunch of, you know, different conditions that people can target immediately just by, just by plugging into it. So we're excited, you know, to,
Speaker 1: (46:25)
So I know that, you know, with anybody, like there are certain clients that, that you're like, Oh yeah, I can really help this doctor. And there are certain doctors like, yeah, this probably isn't for you. Like, if you can speak to the doctors listening to this right now, like who is your ideal client? So if someone calls you and says, Hey Sam, can you help me with XYZ? And you're like, check, check, check. Like what, what would that, like, what are your kind of ideal clients that are like sort of home run clients? Yeah. So, um, you know,
Speaker 3: (46:52)
There's, there's always the business owner that wants, um, wants to save money and saving money. Isn't the best reason to do things, right? You, you need to have a fit and we're not a fit for everybody. When you, when you speak, we've actually, we had a, some new members sign on within the last two
Speaker 1: (47:12)
Weeks and then cancel. And he said, Oh, I thought this was more, um,
Speaker 3: (47:17)
You know, more hands on and hands on from a perspective of, we were going to get in and click, you know, launch campaign.
Speaker 1: (47:24)
I thought we made it easy enough, but you know, some people, they, they just want it done for, they really want to pay the
Speaker 3: (47:30)
Money and just have it done. Okay. There is, there's definitely space for agencies to get in and do that service. We are not an agency. We are a software. So you need to log in. You need, well, you need to turn your computer on. You need to log in and you need to, you know, be willing to get your hands into the system, right. You need to be willing to, you know, if somebody is, is texting, Hey, can I learn more about your neuropathy program, answer them, you know, so that's a, that's a big piece to this. Um, and then the other thing is we are somewhat limited by, um, varying our offers. You know, we want offers that go into patient stream. We want them to be proven, okay. So if you say, Hey, can we try and offer that this, that, and the other, first of all, if it's not a good offer, we're not going to try it.
Speaker 3: (48:25)
You know, and we have kind of a track record of knowing what will work and what doesn't work. Um, if it is a good offer and you have a track record of it running in, you know, in your clinic and, you know, I'm always excited and willing to look at that type of thing. Okay. So, because we're limited by, you know, just time and the amount of people we have that create creating an offer that works is an art. Okay. It's not something I can delegate to somebody it's something that me and my team we have to do. And so we are, um, you know, some of the functional space, so diabetes and thyroid conditions, um, those were kind of more difficult because there's so many varies varying approaches to solving those problems, right? If there's uniformity, we can create an offer that works, um, you know, event marketing is great for, um, for diabetes and thyroid conditions, autoimmune conditions, things like that.
Speaker 3: (49:25)
And I think once things start to open up for events, again, that those will be a bigger part of the platform. Um, but anyways, so we are limited by some conditions. We've got a lot of great ones. If you're a chiropractor, we've got plenty of stuff for you. If you're an integrated clinic, we've got plenty of joint conditions, um, you know, um, body contouring, things like that and neuropathy, um, things along those lines. So it's not a, you know, it's not a silver bullet. We didn't create a magical wand that we're just giving to everybody there is work involved. Um, we want you to get in and get educated, get involved with our group and with our community. We want you to get some marketing and sales skills and, uh, we give you a lot of training. And I mean, we do three trainings every single week, uh, between me and the staff. That's a weekly basis. And we're, we're doing that because there's a machine that runs people's ads. So instead of focusing on that, we can focus on the people and just really see, Hey, anybody who's willing, we can bring your game up and we can do it quick. So basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: (50:32)
You have this computer running everything, and now you've got to get out of the house and find something to do. So you're just training the heck out of doctors, right? Yeah, man,
Speaker 3: (50:40)
You know, it's funny cause um, we do three trainings. Two of them are pretty much, um, my, uh, my, our trainer, Heather, I'm sure she gets bored, but they're the same training almost every week. And they're just making sure that people have foundational, um, understanding and utility of the platform, uh, different things. And then mine is, you know, whatever I want it to be. And it's usually marketing and sales tactics and, or funnel tactics or whatever it is. Uh, so I enjoy doing it. It's, it's, it's a lot of fun. So it's fun. Yeah. I mean, I get to get out of the house and not focus on the stuff that is no fun. And I get to focus on the stuff that is fun.
Speaker 1: (51:19)
That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Well, yeah, you're, uh, you're, you're combining like really good, I think offers an ad's and, and really good technology. And I think, yeah, man, I'm really curious to see how this is going to play out in the Facebook ad sphere in chiropractic, because it's so much the wild West right now. And you have, you don't really know. I think docs have a tough time, um, knowing who's doing who's good and who's bad and they hop around and, and hopefully this will give some kind of, uh, some continuity to what, what doctors perceive as a highly variable form of advertising. And I'm excited for you. I'm excited for your clients, uh, to be able to sort of somewhat automate their ads and, and, uh, and do it in a way that, uh, you know, it doesn't break the bank and not having to spend, you know, two, three, four, $8,000 in Facebook ads, ad agency fees and get some more money in their pocket at the end of the day, which is important.
Speaker 3: (52:17)
That's very important. Yeah, no, we're excited. I think some, like I said, I'm not against the agencies and I think by us offering the service, well, what will happen is some, you know, some innovation on their part, you know, some, some new solutions to different things. You know, I mean, how many people are focusing on, on physical mail anymore or,
Speaker 1: (52:38)
Or YouTube ads, there's hardly any,
Speaker 3: (52:39)
Anybody focusing on these things, you know, um, and doctors need them, you know what I mean, doctors need these, these different avenues for attention. So I, I think it's going to be, um, even if we were to take a huge swath, which we're not trying to ruin anybody's business, we're trying to help. Uh, and, but I think what it will do is just elevate everybody else's game. And if we can help your business get more, uh, you know, have, uh, get more new patients and grow and do it at a lower cost. I think that's a good thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (53:16)
I mean, it's just a natural progression of technology and, and, and services advancing and becoming more efficient and better at what you do. And yeah. Yeah. That's awesome, man. Well, thank you for your, for your time. And you know, I was really excited to have you on the podcast. I don't have a whole lot of guests come on. Um, but I wanted to have you come on, first of all, so people can see how great of a bald head you have. Uh, you have like the perfect bald head. There's no debts. My wife told me other day, she's like, you better not lose your hair cause you would not look good. And maybe while I'm growing my hair out, like you never know until you actually do it. It's a gamble. It is a gamble. I remember when I first did it, I was like, Oh boy, but it worked out.
Speaker 1: (54:06)
So yeah, no, but I have my hair massive. I have ears that stick out to call me elf. I got, I'm still self conscious about yours. So if I go bulk, Oh boy, what a bunch of jerks. Those people were. I'm sure. You'll look great. Bald. If you ever come onto the team, I'll stick with hair for now. And if I have to work when it happens, there you go. Awesome, man. Well, Sam, thank you so much. Oh, and by the way, if people listening, if you want to know more about patient stream, what it can do, if this makes sense to you, what is your, what's the best way to connect with you? Yeah. So
Speaker 2: (54:48)
Just go to our website, which is my patient story.
Speaker 1: (54:50)
I mean.com, check it out. I mean, we've got, you know, we've got a trace and video of kind of how it works with that emotion on it. Um, if you go to the top, there's a pricing button. You can kind of dive more into the pricing and stuff, but yeah, my patients stream.com. Awesome. We'll go check it out. Docs my patient stream.com. Sam, thanks so much for being on here today and giving us your, uh, your knowledge and your time. I really appreciate it. And uh, yeah. Thanks man. Uh, and thanks guys for tuning into another episode of the simplified integration podcast. We hope you found this beneficial and we'll see you on the next episode. Adios.
Speaker 2: (55:30)
Hey innovators, thanks for listening to the simplified integration podcast fact that you're listening tells me that you're like me, someone who loves simplicity and the truth is those who embrace simplicity are some of the greatest innovators. So hope you got a ton of value from what we covered on today's episode. Be sure to subscribe and share with other docs that you feel could benefit from greater sophistication through simplification and innovation. If you've got specific questions that you'd like answered on this podcast, or you've got specific topics that you'd like me to discuss, just shoot me an email at firstname.lastname@example.org that's email@example.com.